From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Alessi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#36717: 25.3; greek.el: deprecated vowel+oxia combinations should be replaced with vowel+tonos counterparts Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:14:44 +0200 Message-ID: <20190718201444.GB4886@robertalessi.net> References: <87zhlbaf5d.fsf@kiddo.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <20190718173252.GA3093@robertalessi.net> <20190718184700.GA4886@robertalessi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="101556"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 36717@debbugs.gnu.org To: Robert Pluim Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 19 00:54:09 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFHs-000QGm-BC for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 00:54:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41284 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFHq-0007BY-SP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:54:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34845) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFHn-00073c-Eh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:54:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFHm-0002tN-9M for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:54:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45995) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFHm-0002tG-4m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:54:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFHm-00030K-1m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:54:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Robert Alessi Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 36717 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 36717-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B36717.156349039711485 (code B ref 36717); Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:54:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 36717) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2019 22:53:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54816 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFH3-0002zB-Ew for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:53:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]:56548) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hoFH0-0002z1-Tj for 36717@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 18:53:15 -0400 Original-Received: from capuchin.riseup.net (capuchin-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95E181A28BB; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:14:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Riseup-User-ID: 537C76813FD9188D3EDAFD5EAEAE2FA20CBDDF60B44C67E7788D268284BD666B Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by capuchin.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5392F1207CA; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 13:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:163344 Archived-At: On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 08:57:16PM +0200, Robert Pluim wrote: > > But those methods that have tonos are for 'modern' greek, whereas the > ones that have oxia are for classical greek, as Basil pointed out, so > perhaps thereʼs no need to change anything (unless thereʼs an edict > from the Unicode people that tonos must be used even when writing > classical greek). I was about to write that, as a classicist, if it were up to me I wouldn't change anything myself. So I would agree with Basil's argument. However, to take this one example, if one tries to use Alexey Kryukov's beautiful Old Standard font with emacs and XeLaTeX or LuaLaTeX, and activates the `ss06` feature which is supposed to automatically make the distinction between initial and medial beta, he will see that ὁ βάρβαρος typed with emacs succeeds while λάβρος fails, just because of ά with oxia instead of ά with tonos. Yesterday, I tried to get to the bottom of this: I cloned the source files of Old Standard (https://github.com/akryukov/oldstand) and edited the source file of the regular shape with FontForge. I included all of the seven letters with oxia that were missing in the substitution rules and generated a new .otf file, but to no avail. Actually, I discovered that even if one selects those letters, FontForge automatically undoes this selection to select the corresponding letters with tonos! Here is the condition: as far as I can tell, there is no way to get this kind of feature to work using the letters with oxia. I myself consider this preposterous. Then I came across digitalclassicist.org. I modified my own greek.el and got a Greek text perfectly typeset with all the required substitutions. In my opinion, this is a serious problem. I will try to proceed further on this line of inquiry. An interesting question is: why (unless I am mistaken) did FontForge deprecrate oxia in favor of tonos? I am asking just because I am experiencing this regression. That said, I will take some time to go through https://www.unicode.org/versions/ and report back if I find anything of relevance. Robert