From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#31597: 27.0.50; Annoying ' to =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=99?= translation Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 17:12:17 +0000 Message-ID: <20180527171217.GA11447@ACM> References: <20180527093215.6039.qmail@mail.muc.de> <83efhx84r1.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1527441204 13355 195.159.176.226 (27 May 2018 17:13:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 17:13:24 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) Cc: 31597@debbugs.gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 27 19:13:20 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzEO-0003M6-6X for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 19:13:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52726 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzGV-0000uU-Ef for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:15:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57942) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzG6-0000lm-4F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:15:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzG2-0004yR-UW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:15:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:43299) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzG2-0004yK-Qi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:15:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzG2-0004uA-Kh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:15:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 17:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 31597 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 31597-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B31597.152744129218814 (code B ref 31597); Sun, 27 May 2018 17:15:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 31597) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2018 17:14:52 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzFq-0004tM-0X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:14:52 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:42863 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fMzFo-0004tC-1v for 31597@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 May 2018 13:14:48 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 59490 invoked by uid 3782); 27 May 2018 17:14:46 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p5B14677F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.20.103.127]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 27 May 2018 19:14:45 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 11785 invoked by uid 1000); 27 May 2018 17:12:17 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83efhx84r1.fsf@gnu.org> X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:146603 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Sun, May 27, 2018 at 19:04:02 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: 27 May 2018 09:32:15 -0000 > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > Cc: 31597@debbugs.gnu.org > > The person behind the change, Paul Eggert, simply pushed it through > > without first securing agreement from Emacs as a whole, and had the > > political skills to prevent a consensus on the matter prevailing. > This misrepresents what Paul did and say, and I think is grossly > unfair to him. This was a highly controversial change. Paul could first have committed the changes on a branch and invited comment. This is, for example, what you did recently when implementing visible line numbers in buffers. It is a correct and considerate way of working. Paul did not do this. He blasted his changes directly onto master. Some of these changes were outrageous, such as forcing the replacement of quotes by curly quotes without the user having an option to disable this replacement. You weren't really involved in the fight against this. I was, and it exhausted me. > I wish we avoided such ad-hominem attacks, just because we disagree. Eli, my view of things is NOT an ad-hominem. An ad-hominem is when one argues by attacking a _person_. My paragraph above does not do this: it criticizes Paul's _actions_. I think it is a fair summary of what actually happened. And I think it is pertinent to the message of my message, namely that this attribute of Emacs which so annoys Helmut is not going to get fixed. Ever. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).