From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#30241: Emacs 26.0.91: "Generalized variables" are not defined. Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 20:06:52 +0000 Message-ID: <20180124200652.GA4493@ACM> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1516824803 868 195.159.176.226 (24 Jan 2018 20:13:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 20:13:23 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) To: 30241@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 24 21:13:19 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRPy-0007sn-UK for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 21:13:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43180 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRz-0005F6-Cs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:15:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36727) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRs-0005EH-0S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:15:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRn-0005jW-2l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:15:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:33451) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRm-0005j3-SN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRm-0001Ib-OA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:15:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 20:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 30241 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.15168248834946 (code B ref -1); Wed, 24 Jan 2018 20:15:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2018 20:14:43 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41348 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRT-0001Hi-1v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:14:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45691) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRR-0001HX-SP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:14:42 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRL-0005S6-RE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:14:36 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:48332) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRL-0005Rw-NA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:14:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36656) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRK-00056j-LN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:14:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRF-0005P7-NP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:14:34 -0500 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:45597 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eeRRF-0005Om-FJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:14:29 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 71600 invoked by uid 3782); 24 Jan 2018 20:14:28 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C7473.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.116.115]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 21:14:27 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 4497 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Jan 2018 20:06:52 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 9.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:142480 Archived-At: Hello, Emacs. Emacs 25.3, Emacs 26.0.91 elisp manual. In enough places in emacs, we find terms like "generalized variable" "place form", and "place" being used. These terms are not defined in the Elisp manual, or any place where they are used. This is a bug. There is a page in elisp which purports to define "generalized variable", but rather than defining the term, it talks vaguely around it, saying it is "one of the many places in Lisp memory where values can be stored". Does this mean it is different from the other such places? If so, how does it differ. WHAT IS IT???? The elisp page then goes on to give examples of "generalized variables", never defining the term. It gives no criterion by which the reader can determine whether some random object is a generalized variable or not. I want to know whether a function is a "generalized variable". After a long time trying to find out, I still don't know. I've been trying for over an hour to use add-function, with forms like (add-function :before sit-for (lambda () (acm-backtrace 5))) (add-function :before 'sit-for (....)) (add-function :before #'sit-for (.....)) (add-function :before (symbol-function 'sit-for) (....)) , and got nothing but unhelpful error messages back, such as Symbol's value as variable is void: sit-for . The documentation of add-function is likewise vague and unhelpful. The various inflections of "sit-for" above are at a place in the add-function form where a "generalized variable" is needed. Is a function a generalized variable or not? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).