From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:01:01 +0000 Message-ID: <20170610130100.GB2960@acm.fritz.box> References: <20170607191344.GB2430@acm.fritz.box> <20170608173400.GA2662@acm.fritz.box> <20170609194141.GA3410@acm.fritz.box> <3b2a119e-7c2e-e906-dea0-ae91aca80f33@cs.ucla.edu> <0846dd8a-804d-4df9-8a45-979a9d49b5d6@default> <94369fcb-ce5f-17be-ced7-0e30bf1dd29f@cs.ucla.edu> <20170610100103.GA2960@acm.fritz.box> <87ink4f72b.fsf@engster.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497099928 7665 195.159.176.226 (10 Jun 2017 13:05:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:05:28 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Cc: Paul Eggert , 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: David Engster Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 10 15:05:13 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg4n-0001Js-M5 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:05:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58501 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg4r-00030U-GD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:05:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46878) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg2l-0001xu-FU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:03:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg2g-0003Ce-KM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:03:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:35210) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg2g-0003CT-G8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:03:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg2g-0003DO-8a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:03:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.149709972811323 (code B ref 23425); Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:03:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jun 2017 13:02:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37887 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg1n-0002wB-Ru for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:02:08 -0400 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:39478 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJg1m-0002u1-1E for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:02:06 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 98023 invoked by uid 3782); 10 Jun 2017 13:02:04 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4FC46B22.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.196.107.34]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:02:03 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 5670 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jun 2017 13:01:01 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ink4f72b.fsf@engster.org> X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:133442 Archived-At: Hello, David. On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:52:44 +0200, David Engster wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > > I suggest that you now apologise for what you did back in August 2015, > > promising never to do the same thing again. > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2016-05/msg00324.html > What more do you want? An apology and an undertaking not to repeat the offense. What you quote is colloquially known as a "non-apology". If you look carefully at it, you'll see it attributes the blame to somebody else ("With the benefit of hindsight, I now see that I was mistaken about how strongly some users are attached to quoting `like this'") and that attribution is somewhat insulting and one-sided, it makes no offer to fix things, and the undertaking not to repeat is less than wholehearted ("I will _strive_ ... to publicize ... on emacs-devel _more_ _prominently_"). Does that ostensible apology give you much confidence that Paul won't do the same thing again? I have my doubts. > I'm not happy with that change either, but Paul has worked on Emacs for > 25 years, with almost 5000 commits on record. This does not make him > infallible, but calling him a 'rogue' is just unacceptable. I really wish you hadn't accused me of that after snipping my text so that people couldn't see the two together. What I actually wrote was "IN THIS CASE, you are that rogue", meaning in this particular instance. I stand by that allegation. What I didn't do was to call Paul a rogue in general. I'm clearly not happy with this change. I'd be as unhappy about it if Paul had already written 50,000 commits, or it had been written by RMS. But, to repeat myself, I'm most unhappy that it was slipped into Emacs bypassing the customary discussion process. It's a non backward-compatible change to a critical bit of Emacs. `message' was previously a logical, strong function, and it has been turned into a messy function which sort of works most of the time. I don't think this is good. > -David -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).