From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23425: master branch: `message' wrongly corrupts ' to curly quote. Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:38:20 +0000 Message-ID: <20170609203820.GB3410@acm.fritz.box> References: <20170605162737.GA30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170605203753.GB30946@acm.fritz.box> <20170607191344.GB2430@acm.fritz.box> <20170608173400.GA2662@acm.fritz.box> <20170609194141.GA3410@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497040875 14483 195.159.176.226 (9 Jun 2017 20:41:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:41:15 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Cc: Paul Eggert , 23425@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 09 22:41:04 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQiN-0003B3-Ux for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 22:41:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56328 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQiS-0001CZ-Sh for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:41:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43639) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQhR-0000Zj-RG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:40:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQhO-00073K-My for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:40:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:34789) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQhO-00073C-IW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:40:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQhO-0000aZ-5u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:40:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 20:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23425 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23425-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23425.14970407672217 (code B ref 23425); Fri, 09 Jun 2017 20:40:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23425) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2017 20:39:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37466 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQgp-0000Zh-Go for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:39:27 -0400 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:53287 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dJQgn-0000ZZ-TT for 23425@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:39:26 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 17080 invoked by uid 3782); 9 Jun 2017 20:39:24 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.111.233]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 22:39:23 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 5626 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jun 2017 20:38:20 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:133421 Archived-At: Hello, Drew. On Fri, Jun 09, 2017 at 13:17:01 -0700, Drew Adams wrote: > > This would render format strings containing these new specifiers > > unusable on Older Emacsen. This would be worked around by providing > > advice to message, to be applied by external packages using the new > > specifiers. > Just what did you have in mind for that? That this advice, applied to message in Emacs <26, would strip the % from %` and %' in format strings. So that, for example, the format string "%`%s%'" would get converted to "`%s'" for older Emacsen. > > There would be a significant amount of work amending format strings > > which currently use ` and ' to use %` and %'. > That's the problem for Emacs maintainers. But the problem for > 3rd-party code is much bigger, because it often needs to support > more than just the latest release. Clement pointed this out well. This is the purpose of the above advice to message. > A user, including a Lisp user, should be able to write ' or ` and > get what s?he writes. No behind-the-scenes application of makeup. > No prettying-up at all - you write ' and you get '. Simple. Clear. > Lovely. Useful. No need for high-heels. I agree with you completely, which is why I am proposing this amendment. > > I think the topic has been pretty thoroughly discussed. Are there any > > objections remaining to me implementing this change and committing it to > > master? > Sorry, but I cannot be in favor of this proposal, as I understand > it so far. That puzzles me, since we seem to agree about everything else on this issue. > But I'm even less in favor of what's already been done: making > quote-translation the default behavior. That's both a tragedy > and a travesty. I cannot imagine what the maintainers were > thinking when they let this one get through. > It's fine to provide easy ways to _allow_ for different kinds of > quote translation. But quote chars (including but not limited to > ` and ') should NOT be translated by default. This is what I am proposing: a ` or ' in the format string should stand for itself, like any other character bar %. %` would get translated either to itself or a curly quote, depending on the user's settings. > By default, chars should be respected for what they are. Emacs > should not substitute other chars just because someone working > on Emacs development considered the substitute chars prettier > or more modern. That's nuts. One overly zealous coder wreaked > havoc, and we'll be wrestling with the result for a long time. I agree with you. In message format strings, % should be _the_ special character. We need one. We don't need more than one. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).