From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#25461: [Patch]: Missing doc strings for "," and ",@". Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 15:56:51 +0000 Message-ID: <20170121155651.GB5394@acm> References: <20170116212257.GA4747@acm.fritz.box> <20170118194320.GB4108@acm.fritz.box> <87lgu7dbyz.fsf@web.de> <20170119175801.GB3397@acm.fritz.box> <877f5qbndp.fsf@web.de> <20170120165856.GA3384@acm.fritz.box> <87y3y5cfnl.fsf@web.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1485014301 13696 195.159.176.226 (21 Jan 2017 15:58:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 15:58:21 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) Cc: 25461@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 21 16:58:17 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy3O-0002ac-Jq for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 16:58:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60543 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy3T-0004k4-If for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:58:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41350) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy3M-0004jo-9S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:58:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy3G-0006G9-Q8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:58:08 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:39447) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy3G-0006G3-M0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:58:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy3G-0003UV-Ci for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:58:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 15:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25461 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 25461-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25461.148501423013358 (code B ref 25461); Sat, 21 Jan 2017 15:58:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 25461) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2017 15:57:10 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37646 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy2Q-0003TO-8D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:57:10 -0500 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:34875 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cUy2M-0003TC-Oj for 25461@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 10:57:07 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 14755 invoked by uid 3782); 21 Jan 2017 15:57:05 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C61DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.97.219]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 16:57:05 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 16713 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Jan 2017 15:56:51 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87y3y5cfnl.fsf@web.de> X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:128294 Archived-At: Hello, Michael. On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 03:26:06 +0100, Michael Heerdegen wrote: > Hello Alan, [ .... ] > I don't want that we change the docs to the worse. I somehow don't think you'll be happy with any modifications I make to the proposed doc strings which leaves their basic structure unchanged. How about starting on a different tack. Would you accept , and ,@ having doc strings, with the entirety of these being: [for ,]: See ``' (and also `pcase') for the details of `,'. [for ,@]: See ``' for the details of `,@'. ? [ .... ] > It [ , ] is implicitly given a meaning by the implementation of "`". > That's why it's documented in the documentation of "`". For the same > reason that there is no separate documentation for :group just because > it has a meaning in defcustom, or there is no mentioning in the > docstring that the symbol `error' has a different meaning as car of a > list that is an error handler in condition-case, or that car has a > different meaning in (setf (car something) ...) or... > All these examples appear in symbolic expressions (i.e. lists) that are > not evaluated normally. Like in the tiny example above. If we try to > mention what a symbol potentially could mean in any sexp that is not > evaluated normally in this symbol's docstring, our documentation would > become very messy, because lists that are not evaluated normally are > very common in Lisp. That's why we normally collect this information in > the documentation of the functions/macros that implement this meaning. > This is not a problem because it's easy to look at the context and > consult the documentation of the surrounding form. , and ,@ are different: it is not obvious to the unexperienced what "sexp" they belong to in something like `(if ,cond (progn ,@body)) . How is a beginner supposed to connect up the ,@ in that example with the ` which doesn't directly enclose or otherwise connect with it? [ .... ] (I'll address your points that I've snipped if they become relevant again.) > Regards, > Michael. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).