From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#25462: Out of date doc string for "`". Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:55:25 +0000 Message-ID: <20170118205525.GF4108@acm.fritz.box> References: <20170116213051.GB4747@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1484773235 25937 195.159.176.226 (18 Jan 2017 21:00:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 21:00:35 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Cc: 25462@debbugs.gnu.org, Noam Postavsky To: John Mastro Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 18 22:00:30 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxLF-0005qW-5L for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:00:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44280 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxLI-0007Sm-6f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:00:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41591) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxH5-0003xp-09 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:56:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxH0-000120-Kl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:56:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:36823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxH0-00011o-HB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:56:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxH0-0005pa-4D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:56:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 25462 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 25462-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B25462.148477294422388 (code B ref 25462); Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:56:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 25462) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jan 2017 20:55:44 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxGh-0005p2-QC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:55:43 -0500 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:50199 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cTxGg-0005ou-36 for 25462@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 15:55:42 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 6731 invoked by uid 3782); 18 Jan 2017 20:55:40 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6FB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.111.181]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 21:55:39 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 5614 invoked by uid 1000); 18 Jan 2017 20:55:25 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:128217 Archived-At: Hello, John. On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 01:17:27PM -0800, John Mastro wrote: > Noam Postavsky wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> Hello, Emacs. > >> The doc string for "`" has become partial. > >> It fails to mention that "`" has a radically different meaning when used > >> in certain parts of a `pcase', and probably quite a few other similar > >> macros. > > I don't think that makes sense. Similarly, we don't add a mention of > > `cl-loop's use of `if' in the docstring of `if', because that's not > > part of the `if' special form. It's just a use of `if' as a plain > > symbol. > Since the misunderstanding is believing that "`" is more special than it > is, maybe something calling out its ordinariness could be appropriate > (and throw in a reference to pcase as an example?) "`" is very special. So special, indeed, that its syntax is handled by the Lisp reader. > I don't think this is great, but, as an example: > Note that `\\=`' is any ordinary Lisp symbol and thus may be treated > as data or given different meanings in particular contexts. For > instance, it has a special meaning inside `pcase' patterns. I think that's objectively wrong. "`" isn't an ordinary Lisp symbol, it's a reader macro which is handled in the reader. There aren't many of these macros, and only a very few in normal use. Besides, we don't want to encourage people to reuse existing symbols for unconnected purposes. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).