From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24891: 25.1: Falsehood on page "Major Modes" of Emacs manual. Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:39:59 +0000 Message-ID: <20161107203959.GC2988@acm.fritz.box> References: <20161106221832.GB5605@acm.fritz.box> <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1478551279 24625 195.159.176.226 (7 Nov 2016 20:41:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 20:41:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Cc: 24891@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 07 21:41:15 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qj7-00057b-1O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 21:41:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56484 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qjA-0006j6-4L for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:41:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45128) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qj4-0006j0-HK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:41:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qj0-0007V0-HD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:41:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:33338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qj0-0007Us-DD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:41:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qj0-0006Ut-7f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:41:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 24891 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 24891-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B24891.147855122224921 (code B ref 24891); Mon, 07 Nov 2016 20:41:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24891) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2016 20:40:22 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48737 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qiM-0006Ts-Kx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:40:22 -0500 Original-Received: from ocolin.muc.de ([193.149.48.4]:29340 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1c3qiL-0006Tl-Ge for 24891@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 15:40:21 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 4759 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Nov 2016 20:40:20 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548C6E8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.140.110.141]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 07 Nov 2016 21:40:19 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 3318 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Nov 2016 20:39:59 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <71941c5f-0c6c-4edd-99ab-134cf6fdce96@default> X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:125447 Archived-At: Hello, Drew. On Sun, Nov 06, 2016 at 03:19:57PM -0800, Drew Adams wrote: > > In the Emacs manual, page "Major Modes" appears the following: > > all programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook', prior to > > running their own mode hooks. > > I suggest amending this sentence to something like: > > many programming language modes (including all these distributed > > with Emacs) run `prog-mode-hook', prior to runnuing their own > > mode hooks. > +1. > But: these -> those, > runnuing -> running, Yes, thanks. > and we can drop the comma before "prior". Maybe, maybe not. The bit beginning with "prior" isn't qualifying what comes before, it's adding an extra bit of independent information, so the comma is justified. > And I'm not sure why we need to or should say "(including...)". Why? I'm told there are users who put things in prog-mode-hook to get effects in (nearly) all programming modes. It will avoid confusing them. Also, on a purely pragmatic point, the "(including...)" bit is likely to reduce objections to my proposed change, allowing it to get into Emacs 25.2 more smoothly. > I'd suggest just this: > many programming language modes run `prog-mode-hook' before > running their own mode hooks > Or even "some" instead of "many". What does it matter how > many do this? "Some" is not incorrect, but it's not quite accurate either. "Some" tends to carry connotations of "not that many" in English when a context hasn't been established. I think it's the case that most programming language modes are now derived from prog-mode, so "many" warns users to be aware of exceptions. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).