From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough. Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 21:53:01 +0000 Message-ID: <20160205215301.GG7727@acm.fritz.box> References: <20160205125559.GC7727@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454709084 5788 80.91.229.3 (5 Feb 2016 21:51:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 21:51:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 22564@debbugs.gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 05 22:51:10 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoHV-00018o-Pl for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:51:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50526 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoHU-0008T9-UW for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:51:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56421) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoHR-0008SR-Gl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:51:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoHO-0000Nx-B7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:51:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:54473) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoHO-0000Nt-7s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:51:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoHO-00077I-2o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:51:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22564 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 22564-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22564.145470904427330 (code B ref 22564); Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:51:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22564) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Feb 2016 21:50:44 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34829 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoH6-00076k-31 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:50:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:42878) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aRoH4-00076c-Fu for 22564@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 16:50:43 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 79935 invoked by uid 3782); 5 Feb 2016 21:50:41 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p548A4CF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.138.76.248]) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 05 Feb 2016 22:50:39 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 18377 invoked by uid 1000); 5 Feb 2016 21:53:01 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:112527 Archived-At: Hello, Glenn. On Fri, Feb 05, 2016 at 03:23:57PM -0500, Glenn Morris wrote: > Still fighting the electric-indent fight I see. :-) > Purely as a data point, from the Emacs manual: > The least specialized major mode is called "Fundamental mode". This > mode has no mode-specific redefinitions or variable settings, so that > each Emacs command behaves in its most general manner, and each user > option variable is in its default state. > It would therefore be against the spirit of fundamental mode to > introduce any mode-specific behaviour for it. I'd agree with that last paragraph. However, fundamental mode has had mode-specific indentation behaviour thrust upon it. You'd probably argue legalistically that once some indentation behaviour has been made a default, it's no longer mode-specific. I'd disagree with you. Following a particular indentation strategy is _not_ "behaving in the most general manner", which is what I would like to expect from fundamental mode. As Eli intimated, we could really do with an unspecialised, vanilla major mode, though I've no firm idea what we could call it: plain-mode, or wydiwyg-mode, or something like that. The logical upshot would be to make the default indentation behaviour no indentation. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).