From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Personal Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16750: Feedback on the manual Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:41:35 +0530 Message-ID: <20140217031135.5533840.35644.905@yahoo.com> References: <1392361251.34855.YahooMailNeo@web125005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <83k3cycf8z.fsf@gnu.org> <1392379197.69897.YahooMailNeo@web125002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <8361ohdbnu.fsf@gnu.org> <1392536300.55209.YahooMailNeo@web125006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <87lhxa69qn.fsf@gmail.com> <20140217015420.5533840.47014.903@yahoo.com> <87d2im5tt9.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1392606914 27080 80.91.229.3 (17 Feb 2014 03:15:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 03:15:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16750@debbugs.gnu.org To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 17 04:15:20 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEfv-0002mr-4e for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:15:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37156 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEfu-0007cv-N0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:15:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56694) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEfl-0007cp-IF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:15:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEfe-0004Fp-VU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:15:09 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:54254) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEfe-0004FN-S0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEfe-0001Su-33 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:15:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Personal Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 03:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16750 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16750-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16750.13926068735578 (code B ref 16750); Mon, 17 Feb 2014 03:15:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16750) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2014 03:14:33 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55436 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEfA-0001Rr-Dl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:14:32 -0500 Original-Received: from nm21-vm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.114]:36272) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WFEcR-0001Mc-Ng for 16750@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:11:44 -0500 Original-Received: from [98.138.100.115] by nm21.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2014 03:11:37 -0000 Original-Received: from [98.138.226.56] by tm106.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2014 03:11:37 -0000 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2014 03:11:37 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1392606697; bh=F/DViM1M+aVrBP8feOVZLmfkwKG9mgMnqHD2USlUuRg=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:References:To:Cc; b=iWgausQjVFUo0UEb6K7DW9eW19JeU2cMqQ4/3ZvZhVFA1v978ZQ/P3fA6htkiFbwg1rz2PtExjGSLA5C33UyGYl/XWK7T66gn+sHxxFPu5RFRqJlVWU7BIi21III2I0LzTn0m6Ie4nH/Wp5FC7+NNT9cv41vqK674LJN23G3LiA= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 782096.80382.bm@smtp207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: LcRwuEMVM1myZhkXJpmqdmLZQHlOykZE7NYJYQh4Mv3NaQg CIZo9zjsOJJ4PYzv2P7Gl.PsVGlP72SJrgc.MJCs51Rkmxj7gGYlKuA1EsEO dbtcF_VgullllDbQ8Lgj3RDKD1.zbpOXDurWR0rYjvWU_iD2DqlCCGVFj4o1 6IKCnTFe0yAEJGEHeka9_GmitNxjo65kjhakM1JOfGG7F7Nq7076c4KUR3N2 GThyO02SRqgLgd6NPHAwDwtDwYO2..QokIbkqtuyB_5TXg6vS1xl7aiYP2Do Jut8.fL18y66TNXlcp9vSWvIKH14jpMIzOvEmh9F.ZvpwyUffFKukkMdUVcl KBTXyRXgmHHa7glggxcCgoimMQgjEWdjRuuFZm4l.2hY94m81XEV_PO7Erxq xkL2dnCcw91.In73zaUMtwCA8uio8ZPJB_2jfmGQt39Hg9qLwMrgIfc2bnzx 01SlMRfG0zO5gNF5BVSTkru2RIPltZwCkt4Rfb1LRZBncyvlRppOzCikDz6c F8tyGrdKYUUd.mOqFCtzkku7LuRlA X-Yahoo-SMTP: CQ7uvwmswBDVGWnxNSNdKbm3aT3n X-Rocket-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (gokul_ps@117.206.107.184 with xymcookie [98.139.211.125]) by smtp207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2014 19:11:37 -0800 PST X-Mailer: BlackBerry Email (10.2.0.1791) In-Reply-To: <87d2im5tt9.fsf@gmail.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:14:30 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:85704 Archived-At:
As mentioned earlier.. I guess it's time for me to revisit th= e manual once again, since I am certain about few things now.. Might come u= p with some suggestions once I start using it.. 

Guided tour? I missed i= t somehow..

Thanks again.. 
= =

= = =
=
From: Jay Belanger
= Sent: Monday 17 February 2014 8:28 AM
To: Personal
Reply To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com
Cc: Eli Z= aretskii; 16750@debbugs.gnu.org; jay.p.belanger@gmail.com
Subj= ect: Re: bug#16750: Feedback on the manual


> I still can't think of a scenario where one wo= uld want to keep
> jumping.

...

> And yes, you can't= satisfy everyone. You need not, as well.. But still
> there should b= e people who might feel the same way as me..

People like you don't n= eed to jump; nobody is forced to.

> and as long as you care.. one= quick suggestion would be to release a
> short user guide (different= from manual) with enough pictures and no
> hyperlinks which will hel= p people quickly to begin with, and later
> proceed with the manual i= n place..

Eli pointed out that pictures is a good idea. Does the tu= torial count
as a short user guide? What about the guided tour? Actual= ly, the
guided tour has a lot of pictures included in it.
Since nobod= y is forced to use hyperlinks, there is no reason for them to
be omitted= . People who don't want them can ignore them, people who want
them can = follow them.

> Regarding the 'C-h t' part.. yes the YouTube video= taught me where and
> how I need to issue that command..

The = Emacs Help menu also takes you to the tutorial, which tells you what
the= commands do.

> I don't want this to be an argument on who's righ= t.. but as long as
> you're ready to lend ears to some suggestions, I= would once again like
> to quote the picture thing.. window, buffer = or whatever terminology
> you try to explain there with alphanumeric,= try with a picture
> instead. That will serve the purpose..

M= ore pictures might be useful; currently, the Guided tour is heavily
illu= strated.

> Once again.. I really really appreciate your efforts.= . though I have
> some concerns, you have did a great job there and I= appreciate it..
> regarding volunteering, not sure how long it takes= for me to master
> emacs, but when I do.. I would definitely contrib= ute in ways I can..

You don't need to master Emacs to contribute; in= fact, if you are trying
to help with the beginning information, suggest= ions from someone not
familiar with Emacs might be the most helpful.
When Emacs starts up (unless the splash screen is turned off), there = is
a list of resources for learning Emacs. Is there anything else youthink should be there? I would think the tutorial would be where new
= users would start off. I take it you think the tutorial should contain
= images; any other suggestions?