From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org
Subject: bug#15478: cc-mode does not obey electric-indent-mode
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 10:30:42 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131007103041.GB3859__39533.2875581973$1381142449$gmane$org@acm.acm> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvbo339qey.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
Hello, Stefan.
On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 09:10:01PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > The default for CC Mode must be on, otherwise automatic indentation
> > is broken.
> IIUC your notion of "automatic indentation" is that the text is kept
> indented without the user hitting TAB, just as a side-effect of editing
> the text.
Yes.
> Emacs has never provided this feature in any mode that I know, cc-mode
> included. Some major modes (such as CC-mode) try to provide some vague
> approximation of it, using "electric keys" that trigger indentation
> "often enough" that it works more or less OK in some common cases.
:-). I think CC Mode DTRT practically 100% of the time. There haven't
been bug reports asking for the details of the electric indentation to be
improved.
> But while CC-mode has been doing that for "ever", it's not nearly as
> important as you claim, as demonstrated by all the other major modes
> that don't even try to do that.
There's a difference between a feature never having been implemented, and
taking it away (even the default value) after it has. Electric
indentation was in CC Mode in the very first version I have available,
from 1992. Somebody (RMS? Barry Warsaw?) clearly thought it very
important.
> > > Please, let's keep this bug-report's focus: making cc-mode obey
> > > electric-indent-mode. Discussion of default setting of
> > > electric-indent-mode belongs elsewhere.
> > These two things are inextricably entangled.
> No they're not. And I think it's blatantly obvious, even to you.
> I understand that simply to mean that you do not want CC-mode's default
> behavior to change.
You're not wrong there.
> So, for the sake of it, from here on, let's please continue this
> discussion under the premise that electric-indent-mode will be enabled
> by default.
OK.
> The core is then: how should we make cc-mode integrate better with Emacs
> and use the generic electric-*-mode functionality instead of
> rolling its own?
How about aliasing `c-electric-mode' and `electric-indent-mode' and
making them buffer-local in CC Mode buffers? Then setting CC Mode's
value of `electric-indent-chars' to nil, for now, and in the medium
future (once e-i-m has percolated through to old versions and XEmacs)
integrating CC Mode into electric-indent-mode properly?
How about introducing `global-electric-indent-mode' and redefining e-i-m
to be buffer-local? Or, alternatively, leaving e-i-m as it is and
defining `local-electric-indent-mode'? What about defining a property
`no-electric-indentation' which could be set on python-mode and others?
> For the record: CC-mode is not the only major mode in this boat.
> I've already converted several major modes to use electric-indent-mode,
> and for some of them this also involved changing the default behavior.
Would you identify (some of) these modes, please, so I can go and have a
look.
> I delayed touching at cc-mode mostly because I know you're
> very opinionated ;-)
:-).
> Stefan
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-10-07 10:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 53+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-09-28 18:10 bug#15478: cc-mode does not obey electric-indent-mode Stefan Monnier
2013-09-28 20:11 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-09-29 3:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-09-29 9:10 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-09-30 18:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-02 20:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-03 1:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-03 2:46 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-10-03 4:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-03 4:13 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-10-03 4:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-03 5:56 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-10-03 6:31 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-10-03 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-03 13:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-10-03 15:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-03 17:40 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-10-03 9:45 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-03 14:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-03 17:45 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-10-03 10:56 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-03 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-04 21:21 ` Josh
2013-10-05 16:50 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-06 17:45 ` Josh
2013-10-07 13:11 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-07 21:23 ` Josh
2013-10-09 17:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-03 11:54 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-03 17:43 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-10-05 17:06 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-06 1:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-06 2:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-06 5:04 ` Josh
2013-10-07 9:39 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <20131007093859.GA3859@acm.acm>
2013-10-07 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-07 21:17 ` Josh
2013-10-08 6:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-10-08 15:59 ` Josh
2013-10-09 17:32 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <20131009173206.GA2610@acm.acm>
2013-10-10 19:11 ` Josh
2013-10-06 17:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-12 14:54 ` bug#15596: Let's improve the default workings of electric-indent-mode Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-12 16:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-13 12:36 ` Alan Mackenzie
2013-10-14 2:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-07 10:30 ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
[not found] ` <20131007103041.GB3859@acm.acm>
2013-10-07 16:14 ` bug#15478: cc-mode does not obey electric-indent-mode Stefan Monnier
2013-10-07 20:37 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <20131007203738.GA3099@acm.acm>
2013-10-07 23:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-10-05 17:08 ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-02-17 19:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
[not found] ` <20140217190249.GB4173@acm.acm>
2014-02-18 0:04 ` Stefan Monnier
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='20131007103041.GB3859__39533.2875581973$1381142449$gmane$org@acm.acm' \
--to=acm@muc.de \
--cc=gnu-emacs-bug@moderators.isc.org \
--cc=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).