bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Van Ly]

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Hello,

When tooltip-mode is off, the minibuffer displays the message in
place of the tooltip.  For the modeline context menu items, the
minibuffer's message line is blocked by the context menu at
column 36.

steps to reproduce
* start emacs by 'emacs -Q'
* apply M-x customize-variable RET tooltip-mode RET
* turn off tooltip-mode
* goto *scratch* buffer
* apply mouse button-3 to display modeline context menu
* on hover over 'Overwrite(Ovwrt)' the minibuffer message line is 
readable to column 36 and the rest of the minibuffer is blocked by 
the modeline context menu

observed behavior
* minibuffer's message line is blocked by modeline context menu at 
column 36

expected behavior
* minibuffer's message line is readable for the length of the width 
of the emacs frame, modeline context menu offsets appropriately and 
does not block minibuffer message line

-- 
vl

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In GNU Emacs 28.0.90 (build 1, aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0)
 of 2021-12-04 built on charlie
Repository revision: f38dfa56a0cfef77c2b0d8bb2869642a4e3b2ae4
Repository branch: HEAD
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)

Configured using:
 'configure
 --prefix=/usr/X/Applications/emacs-2021-12-04
 --with-x-toolkit=lucid --without-toolkit-scroll-bars --without-xft
 --with-native-compilation --without-compress-install'

Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG
LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NATIVE_COMP
NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF X11 XAW3D
XDBE XIM XPM LUCID ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: en_AU.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: en_AU.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Fundamental

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  indent-tabs-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny rfc822 mml mml-sec epa
derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs
auth-source eieio eieio-core eieio-loaddefs password-cache json map
time-date mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev
gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util
mail-prsvr mail-utils apropos add-log log-view pcvs-util vc-mtn vc-hg
vc-bzr vc-src vc-sccs vc-svn vc-cvs vc-rcs vc vc-git diff-mode
vc-dispatcher bug-reference comp comp-cstr warnings subr-x rx cl-seq
cl-macs cl-extra help-mode noutline outline easy-mmode view dired-aux
cl-loaddefs cl-lib dired dired-loaddefs bookmark seq byte-opt gv
bytecomp byte-compile cconv text-property-search pp iso-transl tooltip
eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd
fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment
text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow
isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax
font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian
utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean
japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european
ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray
cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files
window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages
mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind
inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting
cairo x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 120043 7661)
 (symbols 48 9875 1)
 (strings 32 33160 2738)
 (string-bytes 1 1039522)
 (vectors 16 21671)
 (vector-slots 8 393225 15191)
 (floats 8 64 32)
 (intervals 56 1208 0)
 (buffers 992 18))

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 13:59:23 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Van Ly <van.ly@sdf.org>
> 
> observed behavior
> * minibuffer's message line is blocked by modeline context menu at 
> column 36
> 
> expected behavior
> * minibuffer's message line is readable for the length of the width 
> of the emacs frame, modeline context menu offsets appropriately and 
> does not block minibuffer message line

Patches are welcome to pop up the menus so that they never overlap the
echo-area when tooltip-mode is nil.  (This must be done up front, when
calculating where to pop up the menu.)

I do note that the most important use case where this comes into play,
which is menus on text-mode frames, already behaves that way.  So the
problem is rather small and confined to a somewhat marginal use case.

Thanks.

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Van Ly]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> expected behavior
>> * minibuffer's message line is readable for the length of the width
>> of the emacs frame, modeline context menu offsets appropriately and
>> does not block minibuffer message line
>
> Patches are welcome to pop up the menus so that they never overlap the
> echo-area when tooltip-mode is nil.  (This must be done up front, when
> calculating where to pop up the menu.)
>
> I do note that the most important use case where this comes into play,
> which is menus on text-mode frames, already behaves that way.  So the
> problem is rather small and confined to a somewhat marginal use case.
>

Maybe tooltip-mode should be silent in the echo-area once nil is set.

-- 
vl

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:26:11 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Van Ly <van.ly@sdf.org>
> cc: 53188@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> expected behavior
> >> * minibuffer's message line is readable for the length of the width
> >> of the emacs frame, modeline context menu offsets appropriately and
> >> does not block minibuffer message line
> >
> > Patches are welcome to pop up the menus so that they never overlap the
> > echo-area when tooltip-mode is nil.  (This must be done up front, when
> > calculating where to pop up the menu.)
> >
> > I do note that the most important use case where this comes into play,
> > which is menus on text-mode frames, already behaves that way.  So the
> > problem is rather small and confined to a somewhat marginal use case.
> >
> 
> Maybe tooltip-mode should be silent in the echo-area once nil is set.

I don't think I follow: do you mean that we should suppress _all_
help-echo text when tooltip-mode is nil?  That'd be too drastic, I
think, and unjustified.

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Van Ly]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Maybe tooltip-mode should be silent in the echo-area once nil is set.
>
> I don't think I follow: do you mean that we should suppress _all_
> help-echo text when tooltip-mode is nil?  That'd be too drastic, I
> think, and unjustified.
>

The text associated with the tooltip is helpful early on but becomes 
an annoying visual nag once you are familiar with what that thing 
does.  I had tooltip-mode set nil.  I didn't expect the echo area to 
contain the tooltip.  There was text in the echo area and I couldn't 
get the modeline context menu out of the way to read it.  When I 
restarted in 'emacs -Q' to report the bug I discovered the echo area 
partially contained the tooltip text because tooltip-mode is default 
on.  My point is if there is text I want, I want to be able to read 
all of it.  If I've set tooltip-mode nil then I expect tooltip text 
masked out from every output channel.

-- 
vl

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 11:16:36 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Van Ly <van.ly@sdf.org>
> cc: 53188@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> Maybe tooltip-mode should be silent in the echo-area once nil is set.
> >
> > I don't think I follow: do you mean that we should suppress _all_
> > help-echo text when tooltip-mode is nil?  That'd be too drastic, I
> > think, and unjustified.
> >
> 
> The text associated with the tooltip is helpful early on but becomes 
> an annoying visual nag once you are familiar with what that thing 
> does.  I had tooltip-mode set nil.  I didn't expect the echo area to 
> contain the tooltip.  There was text in the echo area and I couldn't 
> get the modeline context menu out of the way to read it.  When I 
> restarted in 'emacs -Q' to report the bug I discovered the echo area 
> partially contained the tooltip text because tooltip-mode is default 
> on.  My point is if there is text I want, I want to be able to read 
> all of it.  If I've set tooltip-mode nil then I expect tooltip text 
> masked out from every output channel.

So you are actually asking for a new feature, whereby the tooltips are
not shown at all, is that right?

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Van Ly]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> The text associated with the tooltip is helpful early on but becomes
>> an annoying visual nag once you are familiar with what that thing
>> does.  I had tooltip-mode set nil.  I didn't expect the echo area to
>> contain the tooltip.  There was text in the echo area and I couldn't
>> get the modeline context menu out of the way to read it.  When I
>> restarted in 'emacs -Q' to report the bug I discovered the echo area
>> partially contained the tooltip text because tooltip-mode is default
>> on.  My point is if there is text I want, I want to be able to read
>> all of it.  If I've set tooltip-mode nil then I expect tooltip text
>> masked out from every output channel.
>
> So you are actually asking for a new feature, whereby the tooltips are
> not shown at all, is that right?
>

No.  I think, I'm asking for the echo area to be readable when text 
is there.  The context menu from the modeline does not get in the 
way.  When I've disabled the text associated with the tooltip by 
setting tooltip-mode to nil, I assumed I wouldn't have reached this 
point where I have to ask for the tooltip text not to show.

-- 
vl

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 13:24:43 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Van Ly <van.ly@sdf.org>
> cc: 53188@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> The text associated with the tooltip is helpful early on but becomes
> >> an annoying visual nag once you are familiar with what that thing
> >> does.  I had tooltip-mode set nil.  I didn't expect the echo area to
> >> contain the tooltip.  There was text in the echo area and I couldn't
> >> get the modeline context menu out of the way to read it.  When I
> >> restarted in 'emacs -Q' to report the bug I discovered the echo area
> >> partially contained the tooltip text because tooltip-mode is default
> >> on.  My point is if there is text I want, I want to be able to read
> >> all of it.  If I've set tooltip-mode nil then I expect tooltip text
> >> masked out from every output channel.
> >
> > So you are actually asking for a new feature, whereby the tooltips are
> > not shown at all, is that right?
> >
> 
> No.  I think, I'm asking for the echo area to be readable when text 
> is there.

Then I don't understand what you wanted to say by this part:

> >>       I had tooltip-mode set nil.  I didn't expect the echo area to
> >> contain the tooltip.  There was text in the echo area and I couldn't
> >> get the modeline context menu out of the way to read it.

This seems to mean that you don't want the tooltip text to be
displayed in the echo area.  But if it isn't displayed in the echo
area, where do you want it to be displayed?

> When I've disabled the text associated with the tooltip by 
> setting tooltip-mode to nil, I assumed I wouldn't have reached this 
> point where I have to ask for the tooltip text not to show.

The doc string of tooltip-mode says, among other things:

  When Tooltip mode is disabled, Emacs displays help text in the
  echo area, instead of making a pop-up window.

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Van Ly]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 13:24:43 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Van Ly <van.ly@sdf.org>
>> cc: 53188@debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>>> So you are actually asking for a new feature, whereby the tooltips are
>>> not shown at all, is that right?
>>>
>>
>> No.  I think, I'm asking for the echo area to be readable when text
>> is there.
>
> Then I don't understand what you wanted to say by this part:
>
>>>>       I had tooltip-mode set nil.  I didn't expect the echo area to
>>>> contain the tooltip.  There was text in the echo area and I couldn't
>>>> get the modeline context menu out of the way to read it.
>
> This seems to mean that you don't want the tooltip text to be
> displayed in the echo area.  But if it isn't displayed in the echo
> area, where do you want it to be displayed?
>

Come to think of it, what I'd like is a volume dial for adjusting the 
verbosity level closer to zero in the echo area and as a fallback I 
can always jump to the *Messages* buffer and see.  The unwanted 
tooltip text can pool there.  Maybe, the verbosity levels can be

   . 100% All
   . 75% Chatty
   . 50% Balanced
   . 25% Important only
   . 0% Quiet

Specific to this bug report.  The problem is the modeline context 
menu gets in the way of reading the echo area and the fix is, as 
you've said, is for an avoid area hint to tell modeline context menu 
where to go.

>> When I've disabled the text associated with the tooltip by
>> setting tooltip-mode to nil, I assumed I wouldn't have reached this
>> point where I have to ask for the tooltip text not to show.
>
> The doc string of tooltip-mode says, among other things:
>
>  When Tooltip mode is disabled, Emacs displays help text in the
>  echo area, instead of making a pop-up window.
>

ah, without confirming the in the documentation, I was in the 
mistaken belief when tooltip mode is disabled the associated text 
description is on mute or masked out.

Thanks.

-- 
vl

bug#53188: 28.0.90; if tooltip-mode is off, modeline context menu blocks minibuffer at column 36

[Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Van Ly <van.ly@sdf.org> writes:

> observed behavior
> * minibuffer's message line is blocked by modeline context menu at
>   column 36
>
> expected behavior
> * minibuffer's message line is readable for the length of the width of
>   the emacs frame, modeline context menu offsets appropriately and
>   does not block minibuffer message line

I'm not going to mess with GTK+ menu placement (and I don't recommend
anyone to try that either, especially with GTK 3, where GTK performing
size allocation a menu causes native input to stop working for a weird
reason), but patches would be welcome to fix that in the Xt builds.  If
it helps, Motif provides some feature to define custom areas of a screen
where XmMenuShells should avoid, but I don't remember what it is.

Thanks.