From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:47:27 +0000 Message-ID: <192e82f20f5deb690394@heytings.org> References: <87blabpy54.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf9eo3mq.fsf@gnus.org> <0d7924a2-d09f-e2d0-f0e7-6b5ee3a7a7f2@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="QnLsfEgGj1" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30230"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Alan Third , 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, Michael Welsh Duggan , Stefan Kangas , jasonspiro4@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 21 08:48:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ6ey-0007k9-QJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:48:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35882 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ6ex-0000vo-Gc for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:48:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36876) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ6ea-0000uN-8u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:48:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45266) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ6eY-0004Fu-Hb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ6eY-0000qX-Ev for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:48:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Gregory Heytings Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 1305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B1305.16189876523211 (code B ref 1305); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2021 06:47:32 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56812 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ6e3-0000pi-M1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:47:32 -0400 Original-Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:46876) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ6e1-0000pY-Ht for 1305@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:47:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1618987647; bh=qWS+0pj6Cq1Vr8wPX3/BqCgZRk3ca09aK6Yiu+pub3Q=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=HxqXJHVIcTSiPjYiTpiR1LLKRD5skYfTJ2+hrSOldHpd1u5VutF+JBahlajn4v0nL 2sVGJ5g4cAaFeMe494zI2EESy++xOkYkriog/KFDfyHWwzZ5aA9YNMyoSraN34AEdN WpVz/TCFGygXkt1s9MBE61NRAPXMo8xur0a4PlR/eQ7VMtbQ5rBtnsKD+QQ4x02+O+ paFT+0H4PIuvMs3phI7jS1cdpBDyU23JqdHQDUA4AWjL8g8vbgLo4kRYlczZs0qbVA /GbolV7GCbPuPZ/foW+jSL3iw3nST+ipO87yIR9BSo/9mqLxrnDULDQqCCsHOMuEaO uhWiXZCs3FVtg== In-Reply-To: <0d7924a2-d09f-e2d0-f0e7-6b5ee3a7a7f2@yandex.ru> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:204577 Archived-At: --QnLsfEgGj1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> And it turns the cursor red irreversibly in my config (but not in=20 >>> 'emacs -Q'). >>=20 >> That's rather strange, color-bell--cursor-background is saved only=20 >> once, when visual-bell is called for the first time.=C2=A0 I'll try to= =20 >> reproduce the issue, but some more detailed information (e.g. with=20 >> debug-on-variable-change) would be welcome. > > I'll try bisecting when I have the time. In any case, it's just an=20 > implementation bug, not a blocker. > Does the attached patch fix the problem in your config? It is probably=20 safer to check the cursor color each time color-bell is entered. >>> Is nobody bothered by having this kind of visual indication while=20 >>> 'visible-bell' is nil, though? >>=20 >> It's easy to turn off, as indicated in NEWS: (setq ring-bell-function=20 >> nil). > > I mean, like, semantically: this new proposal is also visual/visible. > > But 'visible-bell' is nil. > Yes, it's perhaps a bit unfortunate that "visible-bell" is nil in this=20 case, but note that with visible-bell t and ring-bell-function ignore you= =20 also do not have what you could expect. The semantics of visible-bell and= =20 ring-bell-function are a bit unclear, but they cannot be fixed anymore=20 without introducing backward incompatible changes. >> And IMO this is way better than the current situation, in which the=20 >> default behavior depends on too many parameters that are outside the=20 >> control of Emacs, in which the available options are different=20 >> depending on the platform, and in which on certain platforms none of=20 >> the available options are good. > > My #1 preference would be to make it all behave like (setq visible-bell= =20 > t) on GNU/Linux does. This way we both get a proven behavior with no=20 > significant complaints, as well as consistency across platforms. > I understand that you're accustomed to what visible-bell t does on=20 GNU/Linux, but frankly, its ugly. Ask their opinion to non-Emacs users=20 about that bell, I'd be surprised if they like it. --QnLsfEgGj1 Content-Type: text/x-diff; name=New-default-bell.patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <192e82f20f4f90aaee6f@heytings.org> Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=New-default-bell.patch RnJvbSAyMWYyYTk5NDZjNzBkODk3MzY0OGZhM2RmYjMwYzgyNzMyZWE2ODJl IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQ0KRnJvbTogR3JlZ29yeSBIZXl0 aW5ncyA8Z3JlZ29yeUBoZXl0aW5ncy5vcmc+DQpEYXRlOiBXZWQsIDIxIEFw ciAyMDIxIDA2OjM2OjA2ICswMDAwDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbUEFUQ0hdIE5ldyBk ZWZhdWx0IGJlbGwuDQoNCiogbGlzcC9zaW1wbGUuZWwgKGNvbG9yLWJlbGwp OiBOZXcgZGVmYXVsdCBiZWxsLCB3aGljaCBicmllZmx5IGZsYXNoZXMNCnRo ZSBjdXJzb3IgYW5kIHRoZSBlY2hvIGFyZWEgd2hlbiBhbiBlcnJvciBvY2N1 cnMuDQooY29sb3ItYmVsbC1lY2hvLWFyZWEtZmFjZSwgY29sb3ItYmVsbC1j dXJzb3ItZmFjZSk6IE5ldyBmYWNlcy4NCihjb2xvci1iZWxsLWlnbm9yZWQt ZXJyb3JzLCBjb2xvci1iZWxsLWR1cmF0aW9uKTogTmV3IHVzZXIgb3B0aW9u cy4NCg0KKiBzcmMvZXZhbC5jIChsYXN0LWVycm9yLXN5bWJvbCwgbGFzdC1l 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