From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#57012: Activating versus raising frames Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 00:59:03 -0400 Message-ID: <18276abbdd8.2829.cc5b3318d7e9908e2c46732289705cb0@dancol.org> References: <18270a59cb0.2829.cc5b3318d7e9908e2c46732289705cb0@dancol.org> <878ro25eo7.fsf@yahoo.com> <6c3817726a4fc63e83a3d004dffdf072cae278c5.camel@dancol.org> <87y1w03jhv.fsf@yahoo.com> <06468240-fd7c-72e8-2538-b65dd2f28665@dancol.org> <87czdc3h6s.fsf@yahoo.com> <1827637baa0.2829.cc5b3318d7e9908e2c46732289705cb0@dancol.org> <87pmhc21t3.fsf@yahoo.com> <18276492f60.2829.cc5b3318d7e9908e2c46732289705cb0@dancol.org> <874jyo20kw.fsf@yahoo.com> <83278e2613c4a27ade2ed7c0e59210068279782a.camel@dancol.org> <87zgggy8ux.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="18276abbff450e228297098c64" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34337"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: AquaMail/1.38.0 (build: 103800177) Cc: 57012@debbugs.gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 07 07:00:32 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oKYOr-0008i1-Rq for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 07:00:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33044 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oKYOq-0004Vo-Dr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 01:00:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49248) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oKYOQ-0004U5-Sf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 01:00:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:46104) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oKYOQ-00048K-I1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 21:59:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87zgggy8ux.fsf@yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:239027 Archived-At: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --18276abbff450e228297098c64 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On August 7, 2022 00:29:36 Po Lu wrote: > Daniel Colascione writes: > >> Then emit an error message at runtime if you detect them running on >> X11 telling users that things will mysteriously. To let them build >> and run pgtk initially, then get frustrated with a few edge cases, is >> doing them a disservice. They're not going to read that >> documentation. > > Why won't they? Because, as a pragmatic matter, they don't. We're lucky if users read fatal error messages. People don't have time to trawl through documentation before trying something. They read about some cool new compilation mode on Reddit (scanning just the post titles of course), them try it. It's not that they're dumb. They've busy. It doesn't matter whether some file somewhere says a scenario isn't supported: users are going to try that scenario anyway if it plausibly looks like it might work, and when it doesn't, they're going to think less of the whole project. I'd feel much better if pgtk simply refused to start under X (explaining that it's not supported) than silently give users a poor experience. --18276abbff450e228297098c64 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On August 7, 2022 00:29:36 Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com&g= t; wrote:

Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> writes:

Then emit an error message at runtime if you detect them = running on
X11 telling users that things will mysteriously. To let t= hem build
and run pgtk initially, then get frustrated with a few ed= ge cases, is
doing them a disservice. They're not going to read that
documentation.

Why won't they?


Because, as a pragmatic matter, they don't. We're lucky if users read = fatal error messages. People don't have time to trawl through documentation= before trying something. They read about some cool new compilation mode on= Reddit (scanning just the post titles of course), them try it. It's not th= at they're dumb. They've busy. It doe= sn't matter whether some file somewhere says a scenario isn't supported: us= ers are going to try that scenario anyway if it plausibly looks like it mig= ht work, and when it doesn't, they're going to think less of the whole proj= ect. I'd feel much better if pgtk simply refused to start under X (explaini= ng that it's not supported) than silently give users a poor experience.

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