From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#64391: buffer narrowing slowdown regression in emacs 29 Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2023 16:03:52 +0000 Message-ID: <17bc5861308aa155874c@heytings.org> References: <87r0psb51z.fsf@ust.hk> <0AD15A09-F669-48C0-AF5C-971D52F5BF8E@gmail.com> <83v8f3q1ff.fsf@gnu.org> <50A46AAC-2089-45CB-A355-CCB2B4EA8D76@gmail.com> <5995c9ed6a0b39c3070c@heytings.org> <83a5wak1tr.fsf@gnu.org> <26cee506f708f3c6cfe1@heytings.org> <26cee506f70bbc9de58b@heytings.org> <83h6qghpdc.fsf@gnu.org> <26cee506f77e9c87e325@heytings.org> <06A8380F-08A6-464E-9946-02F8498031EC@gmail.com> <239e2a5aa11924a2f1d3@heytings.org> <239e2a5aa14d33c1b087@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18083"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acohen@ust.hk, 64391@debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 09 18:04:26 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qIWtd-0004Uj-UD for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 18:04:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIWtO-00013z-N4; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 12:04:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIWtH-000138-Jg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 12:04:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qIWtG-0003pO-Hs for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 12:04:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIWtF-0003bo-UQ; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 12:04:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Gregory Heytings Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Resent-Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2023 16:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 64391 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs,gnus X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: acohen@ust.hk, 64391@debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, bugs@gnus.org Original-Received: via spool by 64391-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B64391.168891864013863 (code B ref 64391); Sun, 09 Jul 2023 16:04:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 64391) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2023 16:04:00 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46993 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIWtD-0003bW-MD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 12:03:59 -0400 Original-Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:47636) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qIWt8-0003bH-9S for 64391@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 09 Jul 2023 12:03:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1688918633; bh=0ohjILwhsZu36kn6CO8Gw/bXH7hZKu4NznfMw71SzDA=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=d0FrYrN+qsQ1oIcffBVDivdlYwZjOyTb6EidNejoN8zNP9wugbDiYFJJgyF3p98fw L0JuKMFcZLSD9PxA+cOzCeTzIFYWynT8aiDD5Ztw72G7rcejOknVzq4dslI9Ov7pGa V3D6AK7sI5iI03N9smYAQCtwt8caHydvuAhBrW2edfdJYVJ497h5bWecDEGNIYZLIE KaAvxAiAkGQkfhqoNnaKR6wnojJ+97cXi2zhKySJb+Lb8JpK9zN4FjWQZk9J5NDQcX P93T18fZiO8UPrDt2YjxOX/QoZgwJ2jnXFF+25hgr51SytKIUGOSCo9qiwWTWpkLPi JJu0ZMAs9SJxg== In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:264842 Archived-At: >> Well, there's at least something that could be fixed in the manuals. I >> admit I had never read the "Special Forms" section, and if the manual >> had been consistent about the special form vs. macro distiction, >> perhaps I wouldn't have confused these two similar, but subtly >> different, notions. > > At the same time, for the ELisp programmer, this distinction is just an > implementation detail (except for rare corner cases where the programmer > needs to look at the output of `macroexpand`). What is a macro and what > is a special form has changed in the past and will likely change again > in the future (e.g. `defun`, `defmacro`, and `prog2` are now macros but > used to be special forms). > Indeed, but... what would you suggest? Leave the manual, in which that distinction is not always clear, as it is? Fix the manual to make that distinction clearer? Remove that distinction, which is indeed an implementation detail, from the manual (and perhaps mention that some macros are not defined in Elisp but in C, in which case they can also be called "special forms")?