From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20056: 25.0.50; Remove non Common Lisp stuff from cl*.el libraries Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 14:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <14e8cd66-02fe-43c7-8ec8-cb5bb92bbe7e@default> References: <54FC9340.2030703@dancol.org> <4fd5309f-c0bd-486d-8612-a2f724643a2e@default> <54FC9ED3.9000102@dancol.org> <67b0e9f7-5f3f-4a6f-8f07-91e88d881c3b@default> <54FCBCCE.5010402@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1425850344 6727 80.91.229.3 (8 Mar 2015 21:32:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 21:32:24 +0000 (UTC) To: Daniel Colascione , 20056@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 08 22:32:11 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YUiny-0007ls-O1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 22:32:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40621 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUinx-0004H5-Vx for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:32:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50067) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUinu-0004GZ-5t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:32:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUinq-0006qQ-5E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:32:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:41248) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YUinq-0006qL-1n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUinp-0005Bi-OZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:32:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2015 21:32:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20056 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20056-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20056.142585028419886 (code B ref 20056); Sun, 08 Mar 2015 21:32:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20056) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Mar 2015 21:31:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39816 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUinE-0005Ab-2x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:31:24 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:40478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YUinB-0005AM-AG for 20056@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Mar 2015 17:31:21 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t28LV9lG032453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 8 Mar 2015 21:31:09 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t28LV7Iu028328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 8 Mar 2015 21:31:08 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0007.oracle.com (abhmp0007.oracle.com [141.146.116.13]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t28LV75O003676; Sun, 8 Mar 2015 21:31:07 GMT In-Reply-To: <54FCBCCE.5010402@dancol.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:100296 Archived-At: > > It is perfectly fine to extend or redesign Emacs Lisp any way we > > like. And we can take whatever we want from Common Lisp and do > > whatever we want with it. We need not try to emulate any given > > Common-Lisp function or macro. But the things we put in the > > Common-Lisp emulation package should be emulations of Common Lisp > > things, IMO - things designed by the Common-Lisp designers for > > Common Lisp. > > > > It is not appropriate to add non Common-Lisp things to our > > emulation of Common Lisp. That's all. >=20 > I think cl-lib has long ago stopped being an emulation of common lisp. What makes you think so? Even if that were true, it's not a reason not to clean it up now. And if it is not to be cleaned up, what criteria (3rd time asking) do you apply to decide what goes into it and what does not? > Now, it's a CL-*inspired* utility library.=20 What does that even mean? Inspired how? What criteria define what is or is not a "CL-*inspired* utility"? If ever there was a huge language that touches nearly everything and nearly every software engineering construct/approach, it's Common Lisp. What is not a "CL-*inspired* utility"? > I doubt that there's a risk of real harmful confusion between > this library and actual Common Lisp. Google for `letf' and you will find that just such confusion has occurred. And there is no reason for it. That's the point - it doesn't have to be this way.