From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9074: 24.0.50; problems trying to mail bug report, again Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:05:35 -0700 Message-ID: <0B0D5E9653C044619A7E666BB31A90E3@us.oracle.com> References: <3663BA016BAB46B3970AF42151AA73C4@us.oracle.com> <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310601989 30865 80.91.229.12 (14 Jul 2011 00:06:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:06:29 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Glenn Morris'" , <9074@debbugs.gnu.org> Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 14 02:06:25 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qh9Rf-0002Yv-NJ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Thu, 14 Jul 2011 00:05:38 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6E05Woe011812; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 19:05:33 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:05:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <19998.12336.856901.912384@fencepost.gnu.org> Thread-Index: AcxBuFTVviuuCtSwQESvKTPZbjOzmAAALK8w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4E1E32D4.00C7:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:06:01 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:48964 Archived-At: > > THIS bug report is only about the RIDICULOUS obstacle-course dialog > > we make users go through now, after asking them to please start each > > bug report from emacs -Q. > > I never know who "we" is supposed to be. Emacs Dev and all other little elves such as myself who contribute to its development. > "We" don't ask people to submit bug reports from emacs -Q, that adds > no value. What the instructions ask for is a *recipe starting from > emacs -Q that shows the problem*. Excuse my shorthand. That is precisely what I meant. > This is a way to get you to show how > to reproduce the problem. Send the actual report from your normal, > configured Emacs. No. For many people, including me, their normal, configured Emacs is far too complex to be the basis of most bug reports. We do not want to pick all of a user's extra customizations, if we can help it. I don't know where this mailer stuff is saved, but if it is saved in the user's `custom-file' or init file then in order to start from emacs -Q and get to a reasonable bug-report state s?he needs to answer this mail nonsense EACH time. This is (should be considered) totally unacceptable. It works against what _we_ want in terms of bug reporting. Not to mention that it is simply not nice to users. At the very least we should be able to get rid of the backwardness: making users who will ultimately hit `n' for SMTP configuration jump through lots of irrelevant obstacles. Ask the SMTP question first, if you absolutely must ask it each time, and then DTRT for a `n' response.