From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20721: 25.0.50; Review default settings of Info-quoted face (Requires > texinfo-5 ???) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 09:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <09477808-0afb-435c-bff0-4ab5f715c49d@default> References: <867frmu07s.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1433262695 22541 80.91.229.3 (2 Jun 2015 16:31:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:31:35 +0000 (UTC) To: Vaidheeswaran C , 20721@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 02 18:31:22 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp5s-00033o-R1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 18:31:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59699 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp5s-0007Ig-2v for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:31:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37973) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp5n-0007IY-TT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:31:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp5i-0007yx-Qv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:31:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:56064) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp5i-0007yq-Ms for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:31:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp5i-0005Rm-AL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:31:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 16:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20721 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20721-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20721.143326262420891 (code B ref 20721); Tue, 02 Jun 2015 16:31:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20721) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2015 16:30:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37806 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp54-0005Qr-Oy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:30:23 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:37209) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yzp50-0005Po-QX for 20721@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:30:20 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t52GUBNE003115 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:30:12 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t52GUBOc021827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:30:11 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t52GUBdq011547; Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:30:11 GMT In-Reply-To: <867frmu07s.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:103494 Archived-At: > This report pertains to following snippets from info.el. > (defface Info-quoted > '((t :family "courier")) > "Face used for quoted elements.") > (defvar Info-mode-font-lock-keywords > '(("=E2=80=98\\([^=E2=80=99]*\\)=E2=80=99" (1 'Info-quoted)))) >=20 > Summary: I want the Info buffer to be colorized, so that I have > enough visual clues to skim it quickly. I find the Emacs provided > default VERY disconcerting. FWIW/FYI - Since 1996, my code (info+.el [1]) does this. (I offered this several times to Emacs, but there was no interest.) By default, the highlighting is turned on and is noticeable. The face I use for this is named `info-quoted-name' (lowercase). Similarly, double-quoted text ("...") is highlighted with face `info-string'; angle-bracketed text (<...>) is highlighted with face `info-quoted-name' (i.e., same as `...'); and isolated single-quote marks (') are highlighted with face `info-single-quote'. Each such highlighting is optional, controlled by a user option, and can be toggled on/off anytime. To accommodate TexInfo 5, info+.el also uses `info-quoted-name' to highlight =E2=80=98...=E2=80=99. [1] http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/InfoPlus --- Wrt using =E2=80=98...=E2=80=99 instead of `...', by default: I disagree. I think this is a *bad* convention - misguided. The use of `...' is *not* quotation in the ordinary sense, and no ordinary quotation convention should be used for it, as that introduces confusion with normal text quoting (not to mention difficulties for using ordinary keyboards, searching, etc.). Emacs uses `...' to set off *inline code*. In other documentation contexts this is more typically handled by markup tags such as or . And it is typically rendered using a different font (usually monospaced, since the surrounding doc context is usually not monospaced). Emacs needs something that, just like what is used by other doc systems, is not confusable with ordinary text quotation. But Emacs also needs something that is easy to type and search for directly in the "rendered" output. For the latter reason, ordinary markup is not the best approach. The use of `...' for inline code by Emacs is in fact an elegant, clever, and handy invention. It is unfortunate that Emacs (and TexInfo) has now gone down a rabbit hole in the direction of using curly quotes for inline code. That some find `...' ugly or old-fashioned seems to have trumped the good sense that is behind its design. You will find curly quotes used everywhere in the wider world. And I'm all in favor of it! What you will *NOT* find is curly quotes being used to designate inline code, i.e., to distinguish it from surrounding ordinary text. It is *that* use of curly quotes that I think is misguided. `...' for inline code should in fact be something for Emacs to be proud of, not something to toss in the cellar or to paper over. Just one opinion. Check back in another 20 years...