From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23926: defcustom with STANDARD= gives confusing results Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0331acec-645d-4362-8e9a-a18433b518df@default> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1468045952 9530 80.91.229.3 (9 Jul 2016 06:32:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 06:32:32 +0000 (UTC) To: Noam Postavsky , 23926@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 09 08:32:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bLloG-00005B-Bq for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:32:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49137 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLloC-0002si-3I for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:32:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36439) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLlo6-0002sd-NB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:32:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLlo2-00069H-Fg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:32:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:59082) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLlo2-00069D-C4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bLlo2-0002rr-7f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:32:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 06:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23926 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23926-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23926.146804589010985 (code B ref 23926); Sat, 09 Jul 2016 06:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23926) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2016 06:31:30 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43186 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bLlnW-0002r7-4C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:31:30 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:34535) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bLlnT-0002qp-OX for 23926@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:31:28 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u696VJbX023152 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Jul 2016 06:31:20 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u696VJVb004867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Jul 2016 06:31:19 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u696VI4M023488; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 06:31:18 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:120655 Archived-At: Calling such an expression "non-pure" can be misleading. The concept you are looking for is apparently just non-constant, IOW, an expression whose value is not always the same. IOW the expression is not referentially transparent. But in Lisp non-pure often refers to or suggests side effects, esp. mutation of structure. That's not required for this bug to manifest. All that's needed is for the expression to not necessarily return the same value each time it is evaluated.=20 Anyway, yes, I agree that filing another bug for this (separate from #4755) is good.