From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: bug#1800: 23.0.60; Changed meaning of * in buffer name completion Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:35:11 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01c97089$b6902420$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <87r63gs1il.fsf@jurta.org><007301c9704f$3a550ef0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87sknwkov4.fsf@jurta.org> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 1800@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1231307025 6397 80.91.229.12 (7 Jan 2009 05:43:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:43:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, 1800@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: "'Juri Linkov'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 07 06:44:54 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LKRDp-0001d9-1f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:44:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56054 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LKRCZ-0004WQ-3C for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:43:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LKRCU-0004Vh-PV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:43:30 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LKRCT-0004V7-BA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:43:29 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51062 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LKRCS-0004Uq-Vi for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:43:29 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:33071) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LKRCS-0007NZ-A0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:43:28 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n075hODk008273; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:43:24 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n075e5E7007254; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:40:05 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:40:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1800 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12313065277041 (code B ref -1); Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:40:05 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 7 Jan 2009 05:35:27 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n075ZORi007029 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:35:25 -0800 Original-Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:48917 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1LKR3U-0001dt-TG for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:34:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LKR4d-0006lL-8d for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:35:23 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:22719) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LKR4a-0006kW-3R; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:35:20 -0500 Original-Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n075acJF022822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:36:39 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt704.oracle.com (acsmt704.oracle.com [141.146.40.82]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n075Z3we008396; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:35:05 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.134.5) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:35:03 +0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <87sknwkov4.fsf@jurta.org> Thread-Index: AclwVQjckdzXC4yoQxa48mY2YC+1VAAMkFRg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: acsmt704.oracle.com [141.146.40.82] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.49643F09.0129:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:43:29 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:23856 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:23647 Archived-At: > > And I don't think we should adopt the behavior that if > > there are no matches under some interpretation of the > > input then we should try another interpretation > > (and another,...). That's exactly the strategy behind the > > "annoyance". It can be useful to get feedback that your > > input doesn't match. > > > > To me, the thing to do is keep this new behavior as an > > optional feature, but not make it the default behavior. > > People who opt in for this will know what they're > > getting, and no one will be annoyed/surprised. > > > > In a future release, if people generally prefer the > > optional behavior, it could become the new default. > > It doesn't make sense to change the default behavior now > > to something that (a) not many users have even tried, (b) > > was never even discussed at emacs-devel, and (c) is hardly > > documented. (The novelty and sometime annoyance/surprise > > is the main disqualifier, of course, not the lack of > > adequate doc and discussion.) > > There is no harm in a feature if it has no annoyance/surprise. > You said in > http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1757 > > With the traditional behavior, if there are no buffers > with prefix `*', you are told so immediately: [No match]. > With the new, partial-completion behavior, you are given possible > completions that do not complete `*' in the normal way > (as a literal prefix). > > So implementing a message "[No match, type TAB again for * as > a wildcard]" will keep the traditional behavior just as you want. No, there are plenty of other annoyances/surprises for users in this new behavior, besides the `*' buffer one. I gave two good examples in the report for bug #1512, neither involving wildcards or necessarily buffers. http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1512 Beyond the multiple possibilities of surprise or confusing behavior, what's the hurry? Why bend over backwards to force this upon users as the new default behavior? Even if we take as given that the new behavior is interesting and can be useful, why the need to suddenly switch to this behavior? What's wrong with offering this as an option? There already is a user option that controls this. All that's needed is to change the default value of that option to the singleton list '(basic), to keep the traditional behavior as the default. We can then also document well the possibility of the new behavior that combines basic with partial completion etc. - nothing wrong with advertizing this. What's wrong is to make it the default with no track record, no discussion, no poll.