From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3001: 23.0.92; doc for regexp construct (?: Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:41:00 -0700 Message-ID: <001501c9bde0$95bd60b0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> References: <006801c9bd95$41e3e180$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 3001@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1239811849 19271 80.91.229.12 (15 Apr 2009 16:10:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:10:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 3001@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 15 18:12:08 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Lu7iZ-00077g-PG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:12:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56260 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lu7hB-0008Ss-0u for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:10:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lu7aq-0004vY-Fz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:04:08 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lu7al-0004uB-Na for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:04:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55773 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lu7al-0004u7-KN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:04:03 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:41462) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Lu7ai-0001x8-Of for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:04:03 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n3FG3o0j023560; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 09:03:50 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n3FFo3T7019959; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:50:03 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3001 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 3001-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B3001.123981007818674 (code B ref 3001); Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:50:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3001) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 15 Apr 2009 15:41:18 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from rgminet11.oracle.com (rcsinet11.oracle.com [148.87.113.123]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n3FFfEU7018666 for <3001@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:41:15 -0700 Original-Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rgminet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n3FFiYt4005675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:44:35 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt704.oracle.com (acsmt704.oracle.com [141.146.40.82]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n3FFfBf2016766; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:41:12 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:41:02 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acm92n+3e+khl+DuRIGUjCJVpyGYngAA2qgg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Source-IP: acsmt704.oracle.com [141.146.40.82] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.49E60011.022E:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:04:08 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:27203 Archived-At: > > But at least some explanation of the use of the word "shy" is in > > order, if only for mnemonic purposes. What were you thinking? ;-) > > I really don't know what I was thinking, sorry, nor what "they" > were thinking. I could guess at an rationalisation; e.g. "yo' mama's > so shy she doesn't even dare to get a number". I didn't mean anyone in particular by "you". What I meant is that if we use a term such as this, we should give some hint as to what is meant by the term itself. IOW, let users know why it's called "shy". Why? (1) It helps understanding, by letting them know they are not missing something. (2) It helps memory, for later lookup. (3) It helps them understand when they read other doc sections that might refer to the term without explanation. > > (Perhaps it is translated from some other language, where > > it has more than one meaning?) > > My attempt of humor is indeed translated from an unknown > language where it sounds even less funny. Oh, so "shy" was supposed to be funny? Was it also supposed to mean something? Anyway, ca ne me dit rien. > > More importantly, this construct does not appear to be > > indexed in the manual. It should be indexed under "(: > > in regexp", as well as under "regexp non-capturing group" > > and "regexp unnumbered group" - and of > > course "regexp shy group", if that term is kept. > > It is indexed under "shy group, in regexp". It is? I don't see that in Emacs 23 pretest 2 (the version I reported on). These are all of the index entries that contain the string "regexp": $ in regexp ( in regexp ) in regexp * in regexp + in regexp . in regexp ? in regexp ad-activate-regexp ad-deactivate-regexp ad-disable-regexp ad-enable-regexp ad-update-regexp adaptive-fill-first-line-regexp adaptive-fill-regexp auto-coding-regexp-alist beginning of line in regexp character alternative (in regexp) character classes in regexp completion-regexp-list defun-prompt-regexp end of line in regexp invalid-regexp non-greedy repetition characters in regexp read-regexp regexp regexp alternative regexp grouping regexp searching regexp-history regexp-opt regexp-opt-depth regexp-quote regexps used standardly in editing replace-regexp-in-string same-window-regexps search-spaces-regexp searching for regexp sort-regexp-fields special-display-regexps standard regexps used in editing [ in regexp \ in regexp \' in regexp \< in regexp \= in regexp \> in regexp \b in regexp \B in regexp \s in regexp \S in regexp \w in regexp \W in regexp \_< in regexp \_> in regexp \` in regexp ] in regexp ^ in regexp | in regexp I don't see anything shy there. ;-) > I don't know if chars like "(?:" can be used in a Texinfo index > without first sacrificing a few virgins. I don't know which characters are supported, but see the list above, which contains other non-letter characters. > I'm not sure if it's likely that someone will look for > "non-capturing" or "unnumbered" groups Why not? Someone familiar with regexps in another language, who wanted to know whether, and the details of how, Emacs handles unnumbered groups, might well look that up. > (i.e. would someone look for the syntax to use for that feature, > rather than look for the feature associated to that syntax?). 1. Yes, of course. If s?he knew the syntax (or guessed it from another language) to be (?:, but s?he didn't know what the Emacs doc happens to file this info away under, might well look up the syntax itself, (?:. That's the first thing I looked for, FWIW. 2. To look up the feature associated with the syntax, you have to know what the feature is called. That's why unnumbered group etc. should also be in the index.