From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1381: 23.0.60; capitalization of car and cdr in the doc Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:28:32 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c94bed$d0704200$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> References: <000a01c94a73$c5bd1ed0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com><004601c94b4e$88cf5070$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <87vduhttef.GNU's_Not_Unix!%yavor@gnu.org> Reply-To: Drew Adams , 1381@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1227282654 15482 80.91.229.12 (21 Nov 2008 15:50:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:50:54 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Yavor Doganov'" , "'Eli Zaretskii'" , <1381@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com> Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 21 16:51:54 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1L3YIA-0001Eh-Dc for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:51:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41216 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L3YH1-0000Ym-8S for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:50:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L3YGw-0000Ye-Oq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:50:18 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L3YGs-0000Xq-6C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:50:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59463 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L3YGr-0000Xf-UQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:50:14 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:42439) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1L3YGr-0007ou-Hp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:50:13 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mALFo9LU018783; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:50:09 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id mALFZ4Nk014257; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:35:04 -0800 X-Loop: don@donarmstrong.com Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:35:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: don@donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 1381 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 1381-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1381.122728132612734 (code B ref 1381); Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:35:04 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1381) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 21 Nov 2008 15:28:46 +0000 Original-Received: from rgminet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id mALFSh4f012728 for <1381@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:28:44 -0800 Original-Received: from acsinet13.oracle.com (acsinet13.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by rgminet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id mALFSr89006048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:28:55 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by acsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id mALFSnO8013670; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:28:50 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.53.10) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:28:33 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87vduhttef.GNU's_Not_Unix!%yavor@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AclLrcTN3ozHGU/wScOe0KVe2KDTAAAPe6yw X-Source-IP: acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4926D3A2.012A:SCFSTAT928724,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:50:17 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:22554 Archived-At: > > One problem with saying just "car" is that it could be confused to > > mean an automobile. (I'm serious.) > > Absolutely. We had a few reports from readers of > http://gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html who complained that there's a typo. > We changed it to car. I won't belabor the point, and, again, I'm OK with whatever is decided, but just for the record, that reference really argues exactly the _opposite_: 1. Unlike the Elisp manual, that speech does not define terms such as `car' that it uses. It is not intended to be a rigorous or complete description of the Lisp language and its terminology. `car' is used in that speech only in passing, with no explanation of what it is. This is a speech to a Lisp community, after all. The readers might not all be Lispians, of course, which is why it helps to use a special typeface when it is first encountered in reading. But Richard's use of `car' in no way explains what it is - he just uses it normally as if speaking to Lispians. That is quite different from the use of `car' in the Elisp manual, where it is defined clearly. 2. Even in that speech (its printed representation, which is all that can count for this topic), `car' is written as car _only the first time it is used_. Thereafter, it is written normally - no uppercase, no special typeface - just normal text, treating it as a normal word. So even when printing the speech for an audience that you know might be confused by the term (because of typo reports), you chose to use a special typeface for only the _first occurrence_. #2 is exactly what I proposed: Use whatever convention we normally employ to introduce (define) a term - or caps or whatever, and thereafter treat it as a normal word.